Jump to content

Photo

Meritor RF611-19 & ford 9" axle build


  • Please log in to reply
101 replies to this topic

#1
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Figured I might as well posted this up in here as well so the tech is here for everyone.

 

Last summer after havoc I found Neil at western Canadian Rockwell had the Meritor RF611-19's available for a pretty good price.  About 5 years ago I came across a fellow on pirate that took these same diffs and adapted the planetary to a spidertrax pro 60 housing, and ever since I've been hooked on using these.

 

Anyway the reason for not using the meritor housing, comes down to weight and gear ratios.  I want a finished weight of 750lbs, and gear ratios, I'm aiming for a sub 6:1 range (meritors are 6:17 or so), with the ability to change ratios for different applications if i need to.  The 9" will be a spool using the big 3.250 bearing case, and I'll either have the spool wire edm'd to match the meritor axles, or have the meritor axles resplined to the 35spline 9" spools i have.  Right now I'm going to go with having the spool wire edm'd, as if that part breaks replacement will be quicker & easier than the meritor axles.

 

Anyway I was able to tear into the first diff last night.  Put the new work bench to good use too, glad | built it so frickin heavy.  Anyway, the kingpin bolts are installed insanely tight, 1" strong arm and 6 foot breaker bar and jumping on it to break the buggers loose (why I was glad to have the heavy ass bench.

 

Setting up to dismantle the knuckles:

11222225_10156154280605282_8049777042919

 

King pin caps coming off:

12036800_10156154280650282_6721273012838

 

10303782_10156154280670282_5873930296136

 

12046835_10156154280710282_4859602349138

 

12038026_10156154280735282_2379509420418

 

12038141_10156154280785282_7795062437377

 

1970628_10156154280860282_40967290855118

 

12043022_10156154280935282_2051144223898

 

12038322_10156154281050282_3343556762663

 

12046639_10156154281210282_4782485817297

 


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#2
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Had to move these things around constantly, only way to move them was with the cherry picker.

 

inner c prior to removal:

[img]https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12065900_10156154281580282_178375933650314199_n.jpg?oh=48e231ed29ab2b48ea21818e027201c7&oe=56B66BA5[\img]

 

King pins installed in the knuckles for comparison:
12187825_10156154281660282_3415072729895

 

12038287_10156154281850282_8035565287942

 

Top and bottom kin pins are basically mirrored images save for the shims used on the top:
12112040_10156154281925282_8076293330751

 

Cut line, there was a nice casting mark on both sides that made for a perfect cutting guide:
10406387_10156154281980282_1571136271262

 

Strapped to the table and ready to cut:
11221473_10156154282035282_3941711290169


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#3
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Knuckle chopped off:
12039477_10156154282100282_5135797403802

 

There's an inch and a half of tube from the cut line to the bushing at the end of the housing that the axle passes through:
12074874_10156154282135282_7712542401241

 

There is a lot of material at the inner C, likely  2"+ thick all around:
12063388_10156154282195282_8488611450231

 

Right now I'm having a change of throughts on how I want to do the housings.  I'm going away from sleaving tubing to fit the id of the knuckle, just because the ID of the inner C is a very odd bar size.  I''m thinking of either going back to a flanged end, just like the petti bone diffs the monster trucks use, or, pending on how the bushing at the axle end is put together, remove the bushing & seals, bore it out to accept 4" round tube, then sleeve the tube to accept the bushing & seals.  I'm going to ponder this for the next few days and see.


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#4
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

 I was able to press out the bushing/seal retainer setup today, and found that the outer C in the pictures is now very similar to you typical Dana 60 inner C.  My plan is now to bore out the inner C ID to 4", use 4" od x 1/2" thick axle tube, press & weld the tube to the inner C, have the tube trued for the bushing/seal retainer and its done.

Seal/bushing retainer at the end of the inner C:

 

12108171_10156156572255282_3840672261023

 

12107288_10156156572305282_8482649186454

 

12140758_10156156572390282_2903001700431

 

Inner C with the retainer pressed out, the ID is 3":

 

11988746_10156156572200282_2596977436800

 

11221633_10156156572180282_6072106432028

 

In this picture, where my finger is pointing, is the thickest point in the factory housing, its where the axle passes through the bushing/retainer & the housing material, its 6.5" thick of metal at this point, its frickin crazy how heavy duty these things are.

 

12046953_10156156572470282_7987440692935

 

This gives you the basic idea , I had a piece of 2.5nps pipe (2 7/8" dia) that I tossed in there to get an idea.  now I have 1.5" of axle tube on the inner C's that I'll trim off with my plan, that leaves 5" of tube to inner C engagement, plenty to get the job done.  Doing some measuring, I have lots of material to bore out to 4".

 

12063531_10156156572420282_2073630755201


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#5
skipped_link

skipped_link
  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Joined 06-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Golconda NV

What if you build a flange that welds to the axle tube, then bolts to the knuckle (after it is pressed on the tube of course) there looks to be plenty of material there for that, 



#6
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

There is and there isn't, at 90, 180 & 270 the material thickness is only ~7/8" thick for an inch or so until the casting starts to bell out, which isn't quite thick enough for me (I'd want 1/4 material all around for a 1/2" bolt) to feel comfortable  with using bolts at that high stress location.  In the corners & on the top there is plenty, but its not consistent all around, and that's without boring the ID of the knuckle out. That said, I'll re-measure everything tonight just to be sure, as I measured before I removed the bushing/seal retainer.


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#7
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF
Played around a little tonight. Mocked the inner c and tube with a 3rd member housing, gives a good comparo with the 9"

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMAG3714.jpg
  • IMAG3715.jpg

90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#8
Twister

Twister

    OWNER of EMF Rod Ends

  • Root Admin
  • 7,371 posts
  • Joined 03-August 06
  • Gender:Male

I think Cody thats not to big of a deal both Leroy and I had similar issues back in the day when rotating our 106 axles. I've got a few ideas



#9
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Quick update.  Took the parts over to Clay, pretty straight forward to get this done.  Some messing around to jig up the knuckles to be able to bore them out is needed, but nothing really complicated. Picked up the Axle tube from Team Tube yesterday, 10' pf  4" OD x 1/2" thick 1026 DOM tubing (I'll post up a copy of the MTR I recieved with the material, it has some information that I'd like to share with everyone on here).  Also have a pair of new 3.250 bearing through bolt, 10 bolt pinion support, aluminum third members coming (won a couple evilbay auctions and saved 80 bucks over new)  since this is just a cheap 3rd, all I'm hoping for is that it's stronger than a stock nodular housing, fingers crossed..  Next task to tackle is to figure out axle tube lengths, cut the tubes to length, then we can start on the machining of the parts.

Attached Thumbnails

  • s-l1600.jpg

90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#10
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF
Attached are the mtr's. Now notice the first attachment. The details for the material order are good, very precise and specific, the key is the cutting tolerance (which is very tight) and the next is the heat #. The cutting tolerance is great, a lot of places I deal with through work are plus minus 1/4", next the fact the heat number is listed on the receipt means they maintain full traceabilty for their material, which guarantees you are getting the material you paid for, because you will get the mtr with all the mechanical and chemical testing results that verify the materials property's. Next is on the mtr, look at the yield and ultimate tensile strength, 92ksi and 98ksi, which mean if I want to take full advantage of this material I need to use a welding consumable with similar strength, such as an er100s-6.

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMAG3765.jpg
  • IMAG3767.jpg

90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#11
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF
Forgot to add, if where ever you buy your material from cannot supply this level of detail, you should be looking elsewhere, also the heat numbers should be visible on the material you're buying, if it's not, there's no guarantee that you the material you paid for.
90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#12
Twister

Twister

    OWNER of EMF Rod Ends

  • Root Admin
  • 7,371 posts
  • Joined 03-August 06
  • Gender:Male

I use the tensile and yield for bending.  Since it changes every heat I know wether to add or subtract a degree here or there in my bends. Same as machining. It helps determine the life of your tooling. Good stuff. 



#13
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Did some measuring last night, axle tubes are going to be 578mm long and 440mm long, passenger drop.  Little different then the factory meritors, but still pretty close, The difference is due to the 9" center and the axles being closer together, and also the center of the spool is off center in the 3rd member by ~2".   Next step is machining the knuckles/tubes & fitting it all together.


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#14
montymbad

montymbad
  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • Joined 23-January 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort St. James BC

Hey Cody, if you don't mind me asking, what does that axle tubing run per foot?  any reason why you went with 1/2" instead of 1/4" or 3/8" wall? dent resistance? or flex resistance or both? Are you planning on trussing the axle?  
 



#15
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

This isn't specific axle tubing material, just 4" OD 1026 DOM tubing, it was $3.20 a foot from team tube in calgary.  The reason for 1/2" is durability.  1/4 or 3/8 isn't strong enough for long term durability, plus it minimizes some of the machining work and limits stress risers from deeply machined tubing when everything gets pushed together.  It'll get trussed, a top and front truss, similar to what the monster truck trusses look like.


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#16
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Bump, so with things being the way they are, cost is always an issue, and I need some opinions from everyone with what would you do.  This is in terms of the machining of the axles or the machining of the spool for everything to fit together.

 

Cost to wire EDM (through JAS industrial) both spools to fit the axles $900. Doing this,  the spool would have an increase/loss of material of 0.14" on the inside diameter to fit the meritor shaft.

 

Cost to machine the 4 axles (through Don at gen ex) to match the spools $660.  The minor diameter on the meritor axle shaft (necks down too anyway) is just over 1.5", vs the minor diameter on the 9" of ~1.41".  So a total loss of .09" on the diameter of the axle shaft.

 

So with the great minds of the interwebzz, which will leave me with the stronger overall part, and the better tangibles?

 

In terms of the tangibles, the 9" spools will be cheaper & quicker to purchase, but more money to machine, and if it breaks because its the weak point, I'll be down an entire axle.  Alternatively the meritor shafts will not be as readily available (the spool is basically an off the shelf part) but will be cheaper & quicker (more options too) to machine, and if I break one, it doesn't mean I'm totally out of it.  But that's all dependent on what's the weak link, 

 

For the meritor shaft I could use a 2.5 rockwell blanks cut with 35 spline and the necessary collar where it passes through the joint if i can't find stock replacements. 

 

What say everyone, whats leaves me with the strongest setup, and what would you do cost wise?  I will say, if the 9" ring & pinion doesn't hold up it'll get tossed for either a bling 10" setup, or a Jana setup dana 70.  


90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#17
Twister

Twister

    OWNER of EMF Rod Ends

  • Root Admin
  • 7,371 posts
  • Joined 03-August 06
  • Gender:Male

gonna have to think on that Cody



#18
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF
Though it over, and based on prices and future worst case options, axle resplining appears the best way to go. The spool, after some measuring is kinda maxed out at 35spline with the 3.250 bearing size, and if I want max strength with the meritor axles I should really jump up to the next bearing size larger (which allows for 40spl axles)
90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#19
Cody Ford

Cody Ford
  • Members
  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined 05-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary/coutts
  • Interests:90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton bronco
    96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Double checked the axle tube measurements, the went ahead and cut the tubes for the front, also cut down the 9'' case for the 4" OD tubes & cleaned it up to sound metal.  mocked thing ups to get a rough size/weight idea, and so far not too bad.  I also tossed together one of the 3rd member cases for mock up purposes. Tomorrow I'm hoping to cut apart axle #2 and cut the new axle tubes and prep the 3rd member too.  

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1521_10156442624945282_7777340344799609029_n.jpg
  • 12631525_10156442625025282_791306074434306605_n.jpg
  • 12540633_10156442625085282_2916565641175541717_n.jpg
  • 1497466_10156442624885282_8098156916805943878_n.jpg

90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

#20
ChestonScout

ChestonScout

    HAVOCS original BADASS

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Joined 01-December 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Clinton, utah
Looks very cool! Awesome to see it come together
Ignorance makes me immortal




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users