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Narrow rear Corp 14 and wide dually front diff mud racer


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#1
Inferno

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So here's the deal guys I have just done a revamp of my mud buggy....nothing like the stuff you guys are playing with just a few times a year mud straight line racer. I just pushed the front diff to the max of my K5 blazer frame and added hydro steering slammed a Dana60 dually diff in it and am running normal wheels....the thought is that I'll be grabbing 8"s of fresh un turned up mud on both side and have more traction then the other guys. Now I just raced it this past weekend and ever thing worked and went together awesome but.....you all know that means time to keep hacking and tearing! so I was racing against a guy with 54" boggers(grudge match) and it got me thinking all these trucks drive the same ruts my front end was a good start but why stop...? Why not majorly narrow the rear Corp 14 ff and drive on the harder packed center. Is this crazy am I a nut lol it's a cheap and easy mod to do wanted to get chrome mollys for the back anyway...these pics might explain better one is the bogger normally20901416_10155519465628376_2313932761757040117_o.jpg and the other is how I'm thinking.narrowed-alot.jpg I don't care about looks just about results. have you guys seen or herd of this done before?? if you got pics I'd love to see them.


then a half done envoy to give you kinda the same idea.driveing.jpg



#2
Inferno

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diff.jpg

This is a cool old winch i found a few years back and I thinking basically like this.



#3
Twister

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Interesting. I always like unusual in the name of experiment. I know a narrower track width in the rear helps on hill climbing. Too much narrower and you roll easy. But look at a skidoo. Narrow track in the back two wide spread skis on the front. Weight distribution combined with traction. Makes sense.im just thinking out loud. The more I think about it yeah. The front axle would ride in the chewed out ruts and keep the rig centred and level(where a narrow front and rear would have you tipped to the side riding the hump loosing traction on the uphill side)and the rear would be grabbing the higher ground.

#4
Twister

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I mean pigs change and the middle might be goo-we but still. Look at a hydroplane boat. Two wide front hulls and a narrow rear

#5
Inferno

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Okay so here is the main reasoning that sparked all this in my head. I had already thought the dually diff would be an advantage for biting into fresh mud on the front. then I went racing this season and I had a little dodge dakota nipping at my heels now this thing was bone stock and stripped down with streetish tires...was kinda embarassing! now I since figured that his wheel base is close to me for track width but his wheels have huge offset and hug in wide so he's basically riding the hard pack that every full size truck is straddling. So yeah the damn gears got to turning and I just can't get this out of my head....narrow as can be to get the most footprint on that straddle center of mud also would make less diff drag too. 

 

 

So this is what I'm kinda piecing together and it's not sounding too crazy after all(to me), yet I don't see it being done anywhere. Now I'm not sure if there is a reason, be it class rules or something else like practicality but I can't see or find info on it.....but here goes some more info I have found

 

I haven't been able to find alignment rod and puck kit for corp 14's but I did find this

 

http://www.pirate4x4...axle-build.html

 

I can stand to narrow each side by 9" before I hit the frame, but still thinking of making a back half and taking more still.

21208919_10155544552668376_215415480_n.jpg

21245201_10155544552678376_1423670339_n.jpg here you can see the much wider front stance with the dually diff and single wheel combo

 

so as that guy on the pirate link did cut the ends lath them down to the spindle slug that will sleeve in the tube say 6" or so and hopefully that will align it enough that it won't be an issue for mud bogging then I came up with this thought of lathing a hole in the end of the axle the same width as the axle it's self and then cut and slide the extra length of the axle through the hole slide the axle into the 3rd member and then bolt on the end cap. Weld the axle to the end cap on the outside and then the inside then weld the spindle slut to the axle so it acts kinda like an alignment rod.21209120_10155544536648376_1334339061_n.jpg

21208566_10155544536633376_1404302962_n.jpg

21209228_10155544536673376_1806760284_n.jpg

 

so come on guys any feed back would be awesome tell me it's a good idea, tell me I'm fucked, just trying to use this a a bit of a sound board.



#6
Inferno

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wow yes Clay the Skidoo Idea is exactly it and I mean I don't know how tippy it would be it's only real corner action is turning around at the end of the pits to come back.and the speed boats too...hmmm I'm getting kinda pumped on this idea.....still keep the thoughts coming!



#7
Twister

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man I wish my shop computer was hooked to the net. I did some 4140 spindles for Dave Warner. His axle was like a U and he bent a spindle at island cup. So I made two new super strong spindles, he stuck his diff in my band saw, cut the old spindles off and we butt welded them to his housing but slid them to the bottom of the tube to realign the axle with the center section.  It was a nightmare but we didnt want to throw away a housing with a truss 4 link mounts shock mounts sway bar mounts etc.... Any way it worked he's raced a bunch of times and no issue. I did use an alignment tube but you can make one pretty easy. Also Ive welded axles before and they've worked. The key thing to remember is you're not driving 100 000 km down a highway. Nothing has to be perfect. You're just living 1/4 mile at a time. Or 100 ft. The things I've seen on rigs I thought were high end that worked is crazy.



#8
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It may want to roll less as the rear would follow the front allow the suspension to work better moving less if that makes sense. You run leafs so it's a little more rigid but by being narrower it can pivot more in the front without lift the rear tire as much. I don't know how to explain better. Maybe the front tire will move 1 foot vertically and if the frame and suspension were rigid the rear tire would only move 6 inches because it's in further. 



#9
Twister

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Looking at how those axles are done even if you weren't center it won't hurt much . Maybe vibrate but you probably wouldn't notice. God I miss when my shop was in the back of a scrap yard



#10
Inferno

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Yeah Clay it's 200 foot pits turn around and race back. Nothing crazy like you bastards.....jumping, front flipping and smashing over buses! This is just mud racing finding the wiggle room in the rules to gain an advantage. I like the 1/4 mile at a time quote too!

 

I get the whole flex thing too 

 

so he's another crazy idea and I'm not sure till I actually get pieces side by side and look at it but thinking about getting another 3/4 ton chevy and cutting off the frame rails and running the left rail on the inside right frame rail and vise versa so I keep stock hangers too, I just need to weld perches onto the tubes. I dunno just snow ballin here!

 

P.S. How the hell are square body Chevy's getting hard to find????



#11
Twister

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Haha in my head I said the "1/4 mile at a Time" in  Dom's voice

 

So you're going to cap the inside of the frame with the other frame ?

 

Square bodies got all used up and they're like 30 -40 years old now. Antiques man. I remember seeing them at the car lot brand new. It's crazy.



#12
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Hahaha don't worry that's how I read it!

 

it was kinda my thought for at first before I go full commitment and cut every thing to pieces.

 

I know thats wild growing up they were everywhere like weeds and I didn't pay them any mind now that I've been needing them the past few years it's crazy to find and guys aren't just lie yeah 100 busks takes it away...now they want a mint!



#13
CHEMMINS

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I think it would be stable. Look at those bombardier motorcycles and the polaris slingshot. All set up wide up front and single rear.



#14
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Yeah I think it won't be too tippy. I mean it's not like I'm going down to one wheel.

 

But it will be narrow.......here's the idea.

roughly 40" mounting surface to mounting surface.

21269542_10155550285533376_1449907999_n.jpg

 

Now Clay do you think it would be better to cut the tubes down to the width I want then take the spindles and turn them down to 6" press in slugs

images.jpg

or grind out the plug welds, heat and some how press out the tubes. Then cut them, down machine them and then heat the housing and press them back in?  

 



#15
Inferno

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yeah the more and more I look into this the narrow rear seems to be the right idea vs the front...in the car world anyways.

lets take a look back shall we lol

maxresdefault (1).jpg hqdefault.jpg

 

 so narrow front not so hot of an idea but the rear checks out!

 

944597f2068987dd59d06593673841c7--can-am-spyder-motorcycle-bike.jpg

GG_trex-1-of-1.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg

 

and apparently it's not a new idea...

 

morgan-threewheeler-c611911012014193928_3.jpg

 

Now I know mines a lot higher and weight is up there for roll center line but like I say it only needs to turn around and line up again, no obstacle course/ jumping for this truck.



#16
Twister

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Yeah I think it won't be too tippy. I mean it's not like I'm going down to one wheel.

 

But it will be narrow.......here's the idea.

roughly 40" mounting surface to mounting surface.

attachicon.gif21269542_10155550285533376_1449907999_n.jpg

 

Now Clay do you think it would be better to cut the tubes down to the width I want then take the spindles and turn them down to 6" press in slugs

attachicon.gifimages.jpg

or grind out the plug welds, heat and some how press out the tubes. Then cut them, down machine them and then heat the housing and press them back in?  

 

I try to avoid disturbing the factory centre section press fit at all costs. its reallyhard to nail the right fit. The housing has to be warmed to expand the axle tube hole. The tube has to be exactly the right o.d. so it gets max sweat fit tolerances without being to big and getting stuck while inserting and it should be pulled into the housing with a puck sitting where the bearing sits so you don't distort the cast body. Which is hard to do quickly with that much heat. So Much easier and quicker to cut the tubes and weld the spindles on. 



#17
Twister

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I say do it! the industry is getting so boring. Same shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Time for something new to rock the wonderful world of mud.



#18
Inferno

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Oh yeah I'm totally sold on it Clay, this winter I'm gunna give it a shot. 

 

I already bought a Corporate 14 ff diff to play with for 50 bucks and it was already pulled so SCORE!

 

So do you think it's better to cut it then spin down into slugs on a lathe then press the ends in like this:

post-2019-0-79882100-1504072343 (1).jpg

 

or cut the amount I want out and reweld the tubes like this:

2i77l9k.jpg

 

also that being said when I do my test run axles...before I buy anything chrome molly I wanna be sure this idea will work so like this pic shows drill the center of the end out slide the axle through and weld both sides......now they look to be a cast and I know it's not overly advised but this is just testing still so should I use the factory axle end or make one out of mild steel and copy the pattern? 

 

post-2019-0-27597200-1504072318_thumb.jpg

post-2019-0-61427700-1504072301_thumb.jpg

 

Also I have traction bars to add when I do all this too.

 

and just  give you guys a bit of idea how long and hard I looked to see if this had been done before look what I found in the depths of the internet, it was hiding behind all the porn. so believe me when I say I'VE SEEN SOMETHINGS!!

 

21230887_902118603283847_1818952081783517899_n.jpg

 

 

 



#19
Twister

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Those axle ends are forged steel not ductile or cast. Bore a nice tight hole heat it and press the axle in so a little pops out the other side weld both sides and wrap it in a heat blanket or barry it in sand and let it cool slow. 

 

The spindle if you could cut in board about 2 inches from where its welded to the housing, you'll be able to look in the tube and see the original lip inside. Try lathing the welded on tube off. Use that to stick in the narrowed tube.



#20
Twister

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so bigfoot was like 50 years behind that car?






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